Thank you for the quote which i had not viewed in advance of
I’m not sure if you had the means to access Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or otherwise not, whilst is actually authored since a guide to possess People in america having colonial forefathers out-of Plantagenet descent. He provides as one of his evidences one Joanna was the newest mother regarding Gwladus Ddu the point that Llewelyn gave the fresh new qualities out-of Knighton and you may Norton castles in the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer when he and you may Gwladus had been partnered. It would had been unlawful to have Llewelyn to provide Joanna’s possessions so you’re able to an enthusiastic illegitimate child (or individual that wasn’t a child of Joanna). This new attributes out-of Norton and you may Knighton stayed regarding the Mortimer friends after that. The newest quotation are, “Whenever brand new Queen provide House so you’re able to a person having an excellent woman away from their kindred for the frank matrimony, therefore the woman dyeth in the place of situation, the guy throughout the Kings case will maybe not hold it to possess his existence, because lady caused the the newest gift.” Simply put, the new qualities will have reverted back to the latest crown prior to it could have been provided to a baby who was not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t have access to the fresh Plantaganet Origins by Doug Richardson, but performed gain access to many talks of him and you will his concepts with other genealogists (specific to possess him, but many and against). I believe, once i produced in my personal early in the day papers, one what shifts they for me personally(Joanna being the mommy out of Gwladus), ‘s the import of the attributes your talk about so you’re able to Ralph de- Mortimer through to his ed a couple of the pupils ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I can not that is amazing in the event the Gwladus is the new ded their unique students thus. Regardless of the objections between the eminent genealogists I talk about a lot more than, there is certainly a broad consensus one to Gwladus Ddu can be reasonably defined as the fresh child of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth by the Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) from John, Queen out-of England. Allow me to grab so it possible opportunity to trust Sharon (inside a message in my opinion) you to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian was from the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and so are blood brother so you can Gruffudd. We ft that it partly into the today’s record included in ‘Royal or other Historical emails Illustrative of one’s reign from Henry 111,’ edited by Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. To the users five-hundred-503 is the transcript off exclusive page old Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, so you can King Henry 111. Contained in this letter, Marshall discusses his siege of your castles from Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy lists the people he based in the palace O’Realy whenever they surrendered, they incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre mais aussi matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m informed this means that we have here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, exactly who is apparently named ‘sibling out-of Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd becoming the brand new illegitimate young man of Llywelyn, it’s pulled one to ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ means that Gwenllian and Gruffudd was in fact full blood aunt and brother. Had Gwenllian been Joanna’s child and that Queen Henry’s relative, definitely Marshall would have mentioned thereon fact? It inability out of de- Lacy’s wife as the king’s niece, are taken as near specific facts that Gwenllian wasn’t brand new daughter of one’s king’s brother Joanna.
This type of services was in fact section of Joanna’s maritagium out of their particular dad Queen John
Ken: Thank you for you to regard to Gwenllian. I am definitely not an expert genealogist, however, I do a good amount of lookup by myself outlines. I think a few of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you may frustrated of each and every other (about evidently way in certain of the things it blog post). You will find issues that we have been just not browsing know with full confidence on people in the fresh new MA because they did not remain vital records such as for instance we carry out now, thus genealogists and historians need to use their very browse around this web-site best view inside the sorting something away. Indeed, public record information are a fairly “new” build – of many says within the us did not keep information away from births and you can deaths before the very early 1900’s. We fall into several origin societies where I’ve had to help you show 11 or a dozen generations, and you can trust me it is hard. And so i really enjoy the problem out-of contrasting MA ancestors. (And the sad topic is the fact that suggestions that exist into MA was of one’s royalty and you can nobility – absolutely nothing anyway for the preferred anybody).